tv Geraldo at Large FOX News July 17, 2011 5:00am-6:00am EDT
prosecution and casey's defense attorneys. what will happen when casey walks out of that jail? holly bristow is in orlando. >> at this point, we don't know specific details on how casey and the me will be released sunday. what we do know it can be any time after 12:01 a.m.. as we've seen in the past, she has walked right out this door. i'm told this time, that is likely not going to be the case. the only other time that happens in the case was when noelle bush was relaced if the orange county jail in 2002. at that time, her dad jeb was governor of florida and her uncle george w. bush was the president of the united states. secret service had concerns because of the war on terror and they thought she may be a target, since people knew where she was. jail offs are telling me this is likely going to -- jail officials are telling me this is likely going to be one of those situations.
nobody is going to get a shot of casey anthony. they are going to try to get her out without anybody spotting her. they are not just doing it for her safety. they are doing it for the safety of the media and whatever protesters have been out here. as we've seen in the past, emotions run high. in the past she has been bummed by people trying to get at her. the media -- bumped by people trying to get at her. the media has been pushed around. they've got at least three plans in place at this point in time they nor not sure which one of those plans they are going to be going with. sounds like it is going to be a game time decision. they want to see how this area is covered by the public and the media sunday. then they'll go with whatever they decide. and we'll be out here and let you know how they pull this off on sunday. >> greta: the anger over the verdictyfw is at a fever pitch. heavy burden was placed on the jury. the jury was not satisfied that prosecutors proved beyond
a reasonable doubt that casey was guilty of murder. why? where did the state's evidence fail? the interview you all want to see the foreman of the jury. nice to have you join us. >> thank you greta, an honor to be here. >> you are number 11 right? >> number 11, i was the foreperson. >> greta: you have asked us not to use your name. >> yes i appreciate that. >> greta: after you her the opening statement. prosecution, before the defense opening statement what did you think? >> what threw me, it was shocking. i was very shocking. again, i didn't follow much of the case after the first couple of weeks. with what the state was presenting, i thought that was pretty standard. in the opening remarks they did show some pictures that were -- that will stay with you for life. we realized how intense and
how serious this case is. when the defense got up, then that's when they started throwing out things that we did not know. and that's where it kind of hit us. it was something that we had to sit back and let soak in. and just see where he went with from there. i was shocking. it was very eye opening. it is a situation that i will never forget. >> greta: the people who watch on television or in the courtroom, we can divert our eyes from the pictures of the remains. they are horrible. you are the fact finder, you can't. you had to look at the worst pictures. >> yeah, we did. we had to look at it. i was right there in front of us. we had to -- it was right there in front of us. we had to make sure we took the notes we needed to take. it was tough.
>> greta: what did you believe to be or conclude with how the remains or the body got from wherever the child died to the where the remains were found, a couple blocks away? >> we know that it was -- obviously, the body was dumped there. it was left there. as far as -- there's a lot of grey area that goes from that june 15th, when the body was discovered. there's a lot of that you know -- there's a lot of speculation as to how it got there? who took it there? just a lot of unanswered questions in that regard. so i can't comment on that i don't know how it got there. how caylee got there. i can't tell you how or who. but, ultimately, the body ended up there. >> greta: were you ever convinced how she died? >> no. never. >> greta: what is your most likely which -- beyond a
reasonable doubt is a different standard than what is most likely, what you think or guess. where do you fall? >> this is all speculation. there's a number of ways that caylee could have died. there is the possibility there was the evidence of chloroform, which we can touch on later. there was a pool right there. just feet away, couple feet away from the doors that has had pictures of her being able to open.x]ö ladders that she potentially could have climbed up herself. i know that is a major way a lot of children die down here in florida. we done foe if that was the cause of death. we done -- we don't know if that was the cause of the death. we don't know the cause of death. everything was speculation. >> greta: the chloroform how did that figure into your thinking? >> the chloroform, it really, as far as the development of
the chloroform, the internet search on the chloroform, really there was the myspace or facebook posting of the chloroform picture and then there was the google search the next day. that was done from the computer, not the laptop, from the actual desktop computer in the anthony home. you could speculate, here it is, the boyfriend posts this, the next day i want to know what chloroform is. you can speculate into that. there was no documentation on buying anything to make chloroform. the one internet search that she made from google was a three minute internet search. and then it subsided from there. if there was possible more traces of it in greater amounts, more of a way how it could be concocted, purchased,
none of that was ever there. so, we were very limited in what we had when it came to chloroform. we were told and they did as far as how and what chloroform is detected in other products at the levels. chloroform is detectable in other products as well i am there was not enough, there really was not enough for us to bring chloroform into the mix. we know there were smaller levels of it in the trunk. we know there was a google search on. and that's what we had. it wasn't detected anywhere else on the steering we'll, handle of the door to the car. and if there was, there still is a question of who and where? >> greta: did you think cindy anthony was telling the truth when she said she had done the searches for chloroform? >> there's a lot of speculation. there's a lot that went into her looking for the chlorophyll because she was
worried about her dogs. i didn't know. with cindy, it want as obvious to me, the lying. she was in a lot of pain. she was in a lot of stress. allegedly she was on a lot of medication. she's been questioned a number of different times. as far as her going back and forth with that, that was something that you kept in the back of your mind. as far as her lying about it. there's people that may look into that. that was not sag we considered much going into tkhreub -- was not something that we considered much going into deliberation the >> greta: everything there was something not proven by the state. was there discussion of motive? they don't have to provecckp motive. any discussion about why anybody would do that? >> again, motive was not something we had to prove or anything. it is not -- we felt that the motive that the state provided
was in our eyes was kind of weak. that a mother would want to do something like that to her child so she can go out and party. that's what they presented to us. aside from that, no. there was no other talk on motive. >> greta: between june 16th and mid july, her behavior, she is out partying, you saw the pictures. there's a tattoo, what was the discussion? what do you think about that period? >> it disgusted us. we were all disgusted with that between june 16th, when it happened to the time that -- that's what makes this hard. is what made it very hard for us. it's something that you know, i wish, because of that, and seeing that, we wish there was something else we could look at. that would be a felony. >> greta: what did you think of the judge? >> judge was excellent.
>> greta: how about the prosecutors? >> the prosecutors? >> yeah, did they do a good job? >> really, when it was over, when they rested, i wanted more. i wanted more. i really thought the prosecution -- i don't know if there was more for them to give. i wanted more. i thought it put us at that point in a situation where this going to be difficult. as far as how they presented things, i thought they did a very good job. i thought ashton was -- you could tell they put a lot of work in the presentations. and i thought, you could tell they knew what they were doing. they were very professional. and in some regards, sometimes i thought they made light of things that i didn't consider was in good taste. >> greta: you mean one reference in closing argument where jeff ashton the
prosecutor got slapped around a bit by the judge for smirking. >> yeah, i thought that was distasteful. the pigs in the blanket reference he made towards one guy who put the pig in the car. studied decomp in the car. you are there for a long time and i understand things pop up that can be how many rouse. you have to keep in the back -- that can be humorous. you have to keep in the back of the mind there's a young girl who has died and we need to maintain focus. >> greta: about the defense team? >> i thought the defense team, again professional. i thought they did a good job. they brought up -- they pushed the reason able doubt. and the reasonable doubt was there. they did a good job of -- a good job of defending, when the prosecution rested of testing. i thought they did a good job in their closing remarks.
>> greta: when was the first vote besides the fore issue? >> i wanted to take a prevote. i wanted to see where people stood. we voted right away. >> greta: you raise our hand or secret? >> you raise your hand. >> greta: what was the split the first vote? >> for which indictment? hurt. >> 10-2. ten -- murder. >> 10-2. 10 innocent, 2 guilty. >> greta: when was that? >> we on the first day, it was within the first hour. >> greta: there's not a lot of persuading? >> not for a prevote. >> greta: were they adamant on guilty, certain company >> with one there was an uncertainy one was add man.
>> greta: what later changed that -- not guilty? >> i never with -- with that person i didn't get into that, it changed -- >> greta: sooner or much later? >> much later. the next day when we did our post votes is when that came out. we realized, the indictments 4 through 7, there was direct evidence on that. >> greta: the lying. >> that was the lying that was a no-brainer 12-0 guilty. we knocked those out right away. because the evidence was there. we get into 1 through 3 that's where the issue is raised. as far as the first one with murder in the first, with the 10-2 votes after going through the process think that explained earlier. where we dissected the word or the verdict age that was on the indictment -- or the verbiage that was on the dim
and looked at our notes and looked at the evidence. the killing, we couldn't -- was not something that we could get. >> greta: she didn't testify. she has a constitutional right not to testify. everyone wonders whether the jury thinks why didn't she testify? any discussion about her not testifying? >> that was never brought up. >> greta: did you want to hear from her? >> you want to hear from the person who is -- that they are talking about from the six to eight weeks. but that's not -- she has a right not to testify. it been unproductive for me to dwell on that. for any of us to dwell on that. there would be no reason to do that. >> greta: did you see her cry? >> yep. >> greta: what did you think about that genuine? >> i don't know. i think there were times when she was crying because -- i did think it was genuine when lee was crying. that was a very heart wrenched emotional point for lee. and i thought that was win for
her. all of the others, i don't know what she is asked to do or told what to do. i don't know if she is the type of person that can cry on the drop of a dime when she needs to. not something that i weighed into anything when it became time for us to come to a verdict. >> greta: any disgust for anyone in particular? >> i'll tell you what. when i had to sign off on the indictments. there was a -- >> greta: you mean the verdicts. >> the verdicts yeah, the sheet that was given to me. there was a feeling of disgust that came across knowing my signature and her signature were going to be on the same sheet. i do have a disgust for -- i don't want to name names, but for people in the family, i do. there's issues that go on that i don't -- i can't really
discuss. but, yeah. there is a sense of disgust by all means. >> greta: what about the meter reader? do you think that he had anything to do with moving the remains, did he see the remains in august really? what do you make of all that? >> i don't know what to make of roy kronk. i know the defense pushed the issue with him. i just -- there wasn't much time spent on him for us to generate a strong feeling towards roy kronk. i do think he did -- he stated that he did remove the remains at a time. he picked a bag up at one point a skull came out. >> greta: you don't think he moved it from the house? >> no. there's nothing that puts him in that house. there's nothing that shows consistently he was involved in the anthony family.
that was not something that i really took into consideration. >> greta: straight ahead, the foreman does not hold back when talking about george anthony. and his many suspicions about him. stick around. >> the prosecution is hugely disappointed. does prosecutor jeff ashton have any regrets? what is the deal with the prosecutor's smirking situation? situation? jeff ashton is here. naturals from delicious, real ingredients with no artificial flavors or preservatives. naturals from purina cat chow. share a better life.
>> greta: what do you say to those who criticized this jury's verdict? >> they can criticize it. i understand some might have more of an emotional involvement that's understandable that they would criticize if they are emotion ali involved it affects them personally. fortunately, they picked people who -- who had no bias which equates to a fair trial which everyone in this country deserves. >> greta: you just heard from juror number 3. here's more of our interview with the foreman and what he and other jurors thought about casey anthony's father george. jose baez's opening statement said there was child molestation in the family. george on casey and also lee. did you believe that? >> no.
>> greta: you didn't believe it? >> there was no evidence to back that. so i could not take that into consideration. that was not a discussion of ours. when we got into deliberation as far as the sexual abuse. what was, was george anthony's actions and his demeanor the way he presented some things on the stand. >> greta: what did you think and what did others think? >> good question. i was right there. i was 10 feet from him. i'm used to reading because of my profession, i'm used to reading people. i really thought that george had selective memory in the whole regard. i thought that george, at times could remember something to be as vivid as it just happen the day before. the way that he described a number of things that happened on june 15th. that would be one example. he would tell you everything that happened. everything that everybody was
wearing. he could tell you the show he was watching the topic they were on. but then, you go and he's questioned on a gas can. he couldn't remember which can. him and the defense went back and forth as to which picture he was shown. when he was really only shown one. he went back on forth on that. he very selective memory for me. that in itself, was something that i always kept in the back of my mind. with george, with the can the selective memory, the way that he handled the tow yard incident. the river cruz. the lady that he could have had an extramarital affair with. it raised questions. it really did. >> greta: raised questions about his character or whether he had some involvement in the death of his granddaughter? >> both for me. character as far as the fact
that he could be possibly lying. also the fact that his involvement was going to be in question, because he was there. he was there on the 15. he can tell you when casey and caylee left. >> greta: did anybody think george was believable or credible or were others like -- likewise suspicions of him? >> there was suspicion of him. that was part of our conversation that we had when we would doing deliberation. that was brought up. >> greta: suspicious that he was involved in covering up the death? suspicious involved with the -- an accidental death or suspicious that he was a murderer? >> all three. we don't know. we don't know the suspicions were raised. >> greta: in the deliberation room? >> we talked about it in deliberation. i can go a little more in-depth in what we did in the
deliberation room since i was the one who had to orchestrate the whole situation. >> greta: how many people do you think, maybe it chained during the course of deliberations how many initially thought george was responsible for a murder? >> george, there the problem with the grey area, there's no way that we can tell the responsibility. what was in question a lot of times dealt with caylee was with cindy the night before. when she came back, the next night, they looked at the pictures of them at the retirement community. then, they to bed. -- they went to bed. guard ranship, when it started who was looking out for her -- guardianship, when it started. who was looking out for her the next day. george, cindy, casey all took hand in raising caylee. we know cindy went to work.
then the grey area comes in. >> greta: at that grey area, i realize that george isn't charged in this case. what i find interesting is that some jurors thought he might be responsible, not just for an accident, cover-up but for a murder. >> it was one of those things because he was there and there's a grey area there. he was in question for us just being -- having some character issues when he was on that stan. he was there. he was there at time on that day that all the grey area is happening with us. that puts him in that mix. it put him in the mix for us. >> greta: coming up, outrage and anger from people and from the prosecutors. there was huge disappointment. prosecutor jeff ashton is here. what does he think about the trial? what was his relationship like
with cindy and george anthony? what really happened in that smirking situation? you hear directly from jeff ashton. defense attorney cheney mason describes his client as likeable. likeable. and much more, coming up. motorcycles, boats, even rv's. nobody knows where he got his love for racing. all we know is, it started early. casey mears, driver of the number thirteen geico toyota camry. geico, saving people money on more than just car insurance.
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working tirelessly on the casey anthony murder trial. jeff ashton went on the record about the challenges he faced in his final case as a florida state prosecutor. jeff, thank you for joining us. >> my pleasure. >> greta: i've won and also cases. it is tough to lose a case. even when you should, it? >> it is difficult to put that much time and energy into something, it is tough. >> greta: if the remains had been found in august, did any of your experts say they would have been any more powerful or more potent position to give you an opinion as to the cause of death? >> most of the experts have told us that in all likelihood, pardon me, by the beginning of july, the body was completely skeletonized. there might have been some difference in the evidence. essentially her body was in the form we saw it in december all the way back in late july, august. so it would have still been a
skeleton at that point. >> greta: before judge and cindy took the stand and they may be perceived -- before george and cindy took thepmoz7s stand, did you work with them at all? >> we met with both george and send did before they testified as we do with most witnesses. prepare them for the various things, prepare george for the allegations against him. and how he would be able to respond to those. yeah we did that with them. >> greta: what an extraordinary dynamic. their granddaughter is missing murdered, whatever. and their daughter is on trial, facing the possibility the state will execute her. i'm trying to think what it was like working with the parents? >> it was -- over the three year period it changed from time to time. there were times when both george and cindy were not very cooperative with us. not to the point of refusing
to testify or anything of that sort. just sort of emotionally difficult. i think when they learned of the allegations against george, that they were a little more willing to talk to us. but still, were emotionally torn between their daughter and granddaughter. >> greta: guy in a lot of trouble with judges. -- i got in a little trouble with judges. you got in trouble for smirking or smiling. i've been yelled at, told to sit down told the marshals to sit me down. what happened there? >> basically, it was the end of a six week trial. as you said, everybody is exhausted and jose's performance was just -- it amused me. unfortunately, i let that out by smiling. i shouldn't have. but, sometimes it is hard not to smile when something amuses you. >> greta: a lot of lawyers
down there have a lot of respect for you. i'm curious. why are you hanging it up? i reel it has been 30 years. you -- i realize it has been 30 years. you must love it and have mixed emotions about this. >> i do love it. i've been doing it for over 30 years. i stayed to finish this case. it was time for me to move on. part of it was that this case had everything that a prosecutor could want to have in a case to challenge him. it just was so challenging. every case after this would have been less of a challenge. and i was ready for something new. >> greta: when i tried a case and lost i was always doing the post mortem in my mind for days and weeks after. any strategy you wish you employed or not? >> no, in this case i think we presented every shred of evidence that we could in the
manner -- in the best manner we could. we got all the evidence in that we should have gotten in. ultimately, if that wasn't enough for the jury, then we sleep well knowing that we did a good job. i think linda and frank and the entire office and the investigators, did a fabulous job in this case. if it want good enough for the jury, then see be it. >> greta: casey anthony's defense team goes on the record. if caylee's remains had been found earlier, would the outcome had been different? plus the attorney you saw comforting casey is here. she says you should have compassion for casey. really! she is here to tell you why. >> can you imagine serving as a juror sequestered for six weeks? weeks? see where they slept, ate and [ male announcer ] this...is the network --
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degree murder verdict as to count one we the jury find the defendant not guilty so say we all orlando, orange county, florida on this fifth day of july 2011 signed foreperson. >> greta: casey anthony will soon be walking free many the jury found her not guilty. now you hear from her defense -- her defense attorney cheney mason. we interviewed one of the jurors, the foreperson watch he said was the reason behind the finding was the prosecution couldn't prove to them beyond a reasonable doubt the cause of death. i asked him to explain this duct tape. because it has hung up a lot of viewers. could you explain to me, we don't have the photograph. where was the duck tape on the remains, when the remains was found? >> there was no duct tape on the remains except for the hair mat on the lower right side. piece number three was found
about eight or nine feet away. there was never any evidence of duct tape being placed across that child's mouth or nose. that was a figment of mr. ashton's imagination. >> greta: i talked to jeff ashton the prosecutor. i asked him -- she disappeared in june or died in june. there was a call in august by the meter reader. then the remains were found in december. i asked him if the remains had been found in august, when the first call was made, whether there would have been more forensic clues which would have indicated cause of death? he said even that was too late. do you agree or not agree? >> i don't agree. it is possible. it is possible, possible, that's the case we the fact of the matter is, the child was alive june 16th. was seen with the grandfather. if the sheriff's department had done their job, i'll always wonder why they
couldn't do the slightest thing. mr. kronk, not known to any of these people, not involved. he called and told them he found a skull. he told his co-workers that were with him, he found a skull. it was located only 19 feet from the edge of the pavement. how in the world, detective, deputy, any law enforcement officer responding to that, particularly in light of the profile of this case, the world was looking for little caylee. a man says i found a skull and the location is around the corner, hundreds of yards actually from the anthony home. the first place they should have looked. >> greta: from the outside, i don't know your client. those 31 days to me were deplorable her conduct, partying, tattooed. i'm curious, your viewpoint of your client? >> well, what i know of casey,
she is incredibly likeable. despite the lynch mob mentality on the street. to talk to her just a few minutes is to like her. she is very bright. very articulate. she's got guts. she's as tough as they come. >> greta: we spoke with dorothy clay-sims. you saw her consoling casey throughout the trial. should people have compassion for casey? what are your thoughts on her level of need of security? >> i would hope she would be treated with compassion, respect and her privacy tan care of. we are very concerned about her for a number of reasons. but i have faith that people will come around, people will show compassion. i think that things are calming down already. i've been getting e-mails
telling me they've been through circumstances and trauma and reacted in certain ways. and they understand. so my hope is that, that kind of isn't will continue and she will be treated with dignity. >> greta: when you say certain words, it feels look a double entendre you say compassion. i think at best her child was missing at worst the child was murdered by her. she a cavalier attitude. it is so -- partying and getting a at that time it is hard when i hear words -- it is hard for me to think of compassion for her. >> you can never have too much compassion. if you listened to the grief expert, she explained people respond to trauma in so many different ways. i learned so much more after she testified. and i began receiving e-mails and communications from people who told me personal stories about how they reacted. i think the doctor covered
that well in the trial. there is no one way to respond. >> greta: straight an 12 jurors and four alternates, responsible for the fate of casey anthony. cut off for six weeks from their usual lives. they were sequestered and had little contact with the outside world for six weeks. on the ♪ hey, dad, you think i could drive? i'll tell you what -- when we stop to fill it up. ♪ ♪ [ son ] you realize, it's gotta run out sometime. [ male announcer ] jetta tdi clean diesel. the turbo that gets 42 miles per gallon. ♪
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>> greta: what was it like to be sequestered? did they treat you well? >> of course they treated us well many they tried very hard. there's a delicate balance between giving us some freedoms and also preserving the integrity of the jury. they don't want us to be exposed to anything that might sway us. at the same time they don't want to treat us like prisoners. >> greta: there was tremendous pressure on the jury. because of the intense media attention the jurors were sequestered nearly six weeks. now you get an inside look at what it was like. justin wells take you sign i had the place the jurors called home. >> reporter: 17 people who were of course jurors or alternates this was home for several weeks. they were does -- they were
sequestered right here. we are up on the 11th floor. typical hotel room. definitely, a luxury hotel. there are nine restaurants here. four swimming pools, two jacuzzies. when you get here you walk into a really grand lobby. the typical rate if you were to just walk up is $150 a night. definitely a luxury hotel room. but all the amenities they would need if they are going to keep everyone sequestered. nine restaurants and/or hroupbgsed. then a big -- lounges. and then day big security area, set back from the hotel gated you need to be a get or member of the golf club. such a big hotel it is easy to blend in. for only 17 people, it would be very easy to blend in. of course depending on the amount of security they had that could change things. the televisions in the room were only receiving selective channels.
ole, orange county sheriff's office probably had a in making sure that happened. they didn't get the standard cable service that you would get. they would receive a newspaper everyday the st. petersburg times. these jurors came from pinellas county and the hometown paper is the st. petersburg times. there were holes cut out of the newspaper. anything having to do with the casey anthony murder trial this was home. every morning at about 6:00, the jury would wake up. they would eat breakfast. by 8:00 they are at the courthouse. by 5:00, the court was ending, typically. sometimes it went later. back here 6, 6:30 sometimes they had events planned, sometime they didn't. there were excursions. we are near universal studios in orlando. only 10 minutes from here as well as seaworld. don't know if they went to
those places many they went to arabian nights, movies. saturdays it was a shorter day. some of them to say they played poker and have a poker night and have a little bit of fun in and relax a little saturday. the week were long days. sunday was a day of relaxation. sunday the jury would be out at the swimming pool. in the afternoon, from 2 to 11 p.m. family members were able to come and visit with them. if there were no visitors for some they could go on an excursion outside of the hotel. this was home this is where 17 people were sequestered, serving as a juror or alternate juror in the casey anthony murder trial. >> greta: coming up, casey will soon be a free woman. is she in danger? what is her relationship now like with her parents cindy
and george? especially after she ac service was very moving, wasn't it? yes, it was. i'm so glad we could be here for larry. at a time like this, friends and family matter most. even preparing this lunch is a help, emotionally and financially. mm, it's true. i was surprised to hear there was no life insurance. funerals are so expensive. i hope larry can afford it. i know. that's why i'm glad i got a policy through the colonial penn program. it gives me peace of mind to know i can help my family with some of those expenses. you know, i've been shopping for life insurance. do you think they have coverage for me, something that would fit into my budget? yes. you can get permanent coverage for less than 35 cents a day. if you're between 50 and 85, your acceptance is guaranteed. you won't have to take a physical or answer any health questions. oh, really? with my health, i didn't think i'd qualify. you can't be turned down because of your health.
plus, your costs will never go up, and your coverage will never go down. okay. i'm convinced. i'm going to give them a call. are you between the ages of 50 and 85? did you think that quality insurance at an affordable rate is out of your reach? if you answered yes to these questions, then you should call about the colonial penn program now. for less than 35 cents a day, you can get affordable life insurance with guaranteed acceptance. there are no health questions or medical exam. you cannot be turned down because of your health. so, whether you're getting new insurance or supplementing coverage you already have, join the six million people who have called about the colonial penn program. ask one of their representatives about a plan that meets your needs. they're waiting to hear from you, so call now. i've put this off long enough. i'm definitely gonna call about the colonial penn program.
>> greta: people across the country are >> people across the country are protesting. saying caylee did not get justice, but it's not up to them, it's up to the jury and casey anthony will walk out of the orange county jail on sunday. where will she go? what will she do? with her face plastered on every magazine and tv show and eyes on her, how will casey return to normal life. what will her relationship be with her family after she accused her father and brother of sexual abuse? all of these questions yet to be answered. thank you for watching on the record and don't forget to share your thoughts about the show.